Thursday, October 27, 2011

some preliminary notes for a post on Libya

above, Ron Paul talks to David Gregory on "meet the press" via Mediaite and

below: Fox News interview with Michele Bachmann regarding Gadhafi and Libya, via Crooks and Liars, October 23, 2011 09:00 AM
Bachmann: Gaddafi 'May Be' Still in Power If I Were President

via Xymphora, who writes:

"Bachmann: Gaddafi 'May Be' Still in Power If I Were President" I believe that Bachmann is certifiably insane, but her voting record, and her stated positions on many of the most important issues, are in many ways far more progressive than most Democrats, and most so-called American progressives. It is simply sad that this 'progressive' website is using her better instincts to make fun of her. The United States is fucked for a very good reason.

According to Wikipedia

In 2009 Libya had the highest HDI in Africa and the fourth highest GDP (PPP) per capita in Africa, behind Seychelles, Equatorial Guinea and Gabon. Libya has the 10th-largest proven oil reserves of any country in the world and the 17th-highest petroleum production.

from the CIA Factbook about Libya:

The Libyan economy depends primarily upon revenues from the oil sector, which contribute about 95% of export earnings, 25% of GDP, and 80% of government revenue. The weakness in world hydrocarbon prices in 2009 reduced Libyan government tax income and constrained economic growth. Substantial revenues from the energy sector coupled with a small population give Libya one of the highest per capita GDPs in Africa, but little of this income flows down to the lower orders of society. Libyan officials in the past five years have made progress on economic reforms as part of a broader campaign to reintegrate the country into the international fold. This effort picked up steam after UN sanctions were lifted in September 2003 and as Libya announced in December 2003 that it would abandon programs to build weapons of mass destruction.

The process of lifting US unilateral sanctions began in the spring of 2004; all sanctions were removed by June 2006, helping Libya attract greater foreign direct investment, especially in the energy sector. Libyan oil and gas licensing rounds continue to draw high international interest; the National Oil Corporation (NOC) set a goal of nearly doubling oil production to 3 million bbl/day by 2012. In November 2009, the NOC announced that that target may slip to as late as 2017.

Libya faces a long road ahead in liberalizing the socialist-oriented economy, but initial steps - including applying for WTO membership, reducing some subsidies, and announcing plans for privatization - are laying the groundwork for a transition to a more market-based economy. The non-oil manufacturing and construction sectors, which account for more than 20% of GDP, have expanded from processing mostly agricultural products to include the production of petrochemicals, iron, steel, and aluminum. Climatic conditions and poor soils severely limit agricultural output, and Libya imports about 75% of its food. Libya's primary agricultural water source remains the Great Manmade River Project, but significant resources are being invested in desalinization research to meet growing water demands.

Children under the age of 5 years underweight:
5.6% (2007)

Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 77.65 years
country comparison to the world: 58
male: 75.34 years
female: 80.08 years (2011 est.)

definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 82.6%
male: 92.4%
female: 72% (2003 est.)

Sanitation facility access:
urban: 97% of population
rural: 96% of population
total: 97% of population
urban: 3% of population
rural: 4% of population
total: 3% of population (2008)

Physicians density:
1.9 physicians/1,000 population (2009)
CIA(the same stats for Iraq):
Children under the age of 5 years underweight:
7.1% (2006)
country comparison to the world: 72
Life expectancy at birth:
Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order.
total population: 70.55 years
country comparison to the world: 145
male: 69.15 years
female: 72.02 years (2011 est.)

definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 74.1%
male: 84.1%
female: 64.2% (2000 est.)

Sanitation facility access:
urban: 76% of population
rural: 66% of population
total: 73% of population(2008)

Physicians density:
0.69 physicians/1,000 population (2009)

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At October 28, 2011 9:30 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Libya faces a long road ahead in liberalizing the socialist-oriented economy...

I didn't realize Libya was TRYING to "liberalize" it's "socialist-oriented" economy.

So good of the CIA to "help" Libya in that task.

Just like "helping" Iraq better manage its oil reserves, by invading, installing a puppet regime, and taking over the oil fields and oil infrastructure.

We're such a helpful nation!

At October 28, 2011 11:49 AM, Blogger rob payne said...

Why do I dislike the news person interviewing Shelly? You look at that asshole and you know exactly why americans are such violent and stupid dumbshits.

At October 28, 2011 9:33 PM, Blogger Jonathan Versen said...

Hi guys,

KFO, when you control the definitions, what you assert to be true about your intentions will always trump your actual behavior.

If Libya goes to hell and becomes another Iraq(as appears pretty likely), it helps if millions of people here are sure they were probably always like that, as opposed to having been a comparatively stable and prosperous country beforehand.

"You mean they weren't allways that way? No way!"

Rob, I think that's Chris Wallace. Bill Clinton upbraided him before in an interview 2 or 3 years ago, which you can probably find on Youtube searching for both their names. Also, I believe he had at least one previous interview with Bachmann where he got on her bad side, asking her how she felt about being regarded as crazy. I imagine you feel about him as they do. Talk about strange bedfellows!

At October 28, 2011 10:07 PM, Blogger rob payne said...


That guy is amazing, so typical. Look how offended he is by Shelly, he looks like he is gong to cry.

As despots go Gaddafi wasn't the worst. He spread the wealth from the oil industry around to the unwashed masses. There are so many things wrong with the main stream presentation of Libya. Thousands have died who would not have if Obama had not gotten involved. And notice Wallace asks if WE weren't better off without Gaddafi. And here I thought the concern was for the Libyans under bad old Gaddafi who wasn't planning on murdering his people as we were told. I could go on but I'll just get indigestion.


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